3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Sitisin) — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:54:37 GMT

ESFsaysHi wrote:
like HMS Indefatigable

which was a razeed frigate btw.....

and i agree with what jackobrien said above. if they are trying to get as historically accurate as possible, precise research must be done.

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Biggun) — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:43:56 GMT

She's built like a steakhouse but I bet she handles like a bistro. I'm gonna sail her brains out.

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (ESFsaysHi) — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:53:12 GMT

^ Generally true.

The single-decked frigates were really the most successful and famous in defining the class. Many of the most storied frigates of the Napoleonic wars were single-decked 36-gun heavy frigates (like HMS Indefatigable, which along with HMS Amazon battled the French 74-gun 3rd rate Droits de l'Homme, wrecking the larger ship). The most famous heavier frigates later in the era were also single-decked ships. The double-decked lower-rated ships were often regarded as...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (cruizer) — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:20:08 GMT

If I remember correctly the biggest problem with the early 44 and 50 gun Frigates had to do with freeboard. The brits tried adding a second gun deck sort of a reverse Razze(sp). However the lower gun deck ended up being too close to the water line. The lower gun ports could only be opened under calm conditions. The lower gun deck became useless in higher seas. I also think the 44 and 50 gun ships carried 18s on the lower deck and 12s on the upper. In rough conditions you lost more than half...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (ESFsaysHi) — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:04:15 GMT

Out of curiosity, where do you get your designs and sail plans to model in game? The fifth rate is reasonably conventional, but when I think "sloop of war," I rarely think a ketch--I'd first expect a brig, or a corvette--and when I think of a ketch, is usually not the sailplan used for the sloop. Placing the spanker on the main mast instead of on the mizzen is an usual choice. Most designers put the spanker on the mizzen, as you get better leverage out of the wind the futher...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (JoeDreck) — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:18:29 GMT

I have a bigger problem with the grenadier model. If this ship must have 40 or 44 canons it not very important to me, but the models of the land units are wrong.

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (aldenpartridge) — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:40:51 GMT

There were actually two USS Constellations. The original was one of the original six heavy frigates ordered to be produced specifically for the US navy as a result of the Quasi War and Barbary Pirates. Originally to be of the same 44 gun (24 pdrs) heavy frigate design as the USS Constitution/USS President. The final product was somewhat smaller than the Constitution and fitted out with 18 pdrs. The second USS Constellation was a later sloop of war that may or may not have been built using...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (jackobrien) — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:40:28 GMT

madbriton wrote:
Come on guys, do you really think that CA won't have researched this?

It is not a question of people researching or not: if you look at the unit preview you will see the text is for a frigate, but the graphic doesn't display a frigate, at least not a typical one.

The thing bugging anubis, headonist and me was why they chose that model to be representative of a frigate, and whether...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Saspi) — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:46:29 GMT

Great, 1 more day and we get next unit :P, thumbs up for the variety of ships.
I just hope that all ships have an important part in battle, from light to heavy.

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (madbriton) — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 10:38:59 GMT

Come on guys, do you really think that CA won't have researched this?

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Jack Lusted) — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:43:42 GMT

In the Royal Navy ship lists for 1794 the Diomede is listed as a 44 gun ship, I believe the similarity between 44 gun 5th-rates and 50 gun 4th-rates(though they were used for different roles mostly) leads to some confusion.

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Anubis1Anpu) — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:41:15 GMT

I have found HMS Diomede (1781-1795) listed as a 50 gun fourth rate ship. http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/D/01401a.html. Her successor was also a fourth rate (1798-1815) of 50 guns. I certainly believe there was more irregularity in the...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Headonist) — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:49:15 GMT

To be fair most of this discussion (argument?) is about semantics, which isn't going to affect the game play. I suppose my real concern is that, within the game, ships such as that pictured should show markedly different (poorer) speed and handling characteristics to the later period "true" frigates - if I were to find the beautiful HMS Surprise or even the larger HMS Lively class unable to outsail one of the fifth rates shown, I would feel somewhat aggrieved...

I have...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Jack Lusted) — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:13:28 GMT

Razees are different from the purpose built 44-gun ships, being cut down 2 deckers instead of being built from scratch. Whilst your quote is accurate for the late 18th century/19th century, it does not cover the first half of the 18th century where the 44-gun ships were used as cruisers and could be classed as frigates. Given the role they will have in empire, we have classified them as frigates as they will do similar things. We will of course have single decked frigates and we have...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (jackobrien) — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:03:54 GMT

Hopefully, some of this information may be useful to people on this particular point. It is from one of my books entitled, oddly enough, The Frigates by Henry E. Gruppe as part of

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Anubis1Anpu) — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:48:14 GMT

Thank you, Headonist, for the excellent corroboration. I will also add that I am completely unaware of any two decker frigates on the Navy list of the late 18th century or from 1800-1815. Unrelated to this, some ships of the line (SOL)s were "cut down" or turned into razees; HMS Indefatigable or Hornblower notoriety is an example. These warships were once small 74 or 64 gun SOLs that could no longer compete in the line of battle; these warships were then transformed, through loss...

Re: 3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (Headonist) — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:00:43 GMT

I have to say I agree with Anubis - the ship modelled (while beautifully done) looks more like a 4th rate line-of-battle ship.

At no point did frigates have two full decks of guns. The frigates from early in the period covered by the game would have been 6th rates or 5th rates, rated from 26-gun to 36-gun (with 9lb or 12lb cannons - up to 18lb max). The frigates from later in the period (particularly some of the later French designs and the American ships of the 1812 War) were far...

3D Naval Unit - Fifth Rate

feeds@yuku.com (SenseiTW) — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 04:12:12 GMT

Hi guys,

Our latest Naval 3D Unit, the "Fifth Rate", is now online here.

Thanks,

Mark O'Connell
(aka SenseiTW)