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Brettgundam

#41

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Posts: 76

12/03/08 15:24:01

has anyone ever thought of using mainly siege equipment and only a medium sized army to destroy a walled city? cause what i would do is postion myself on top of a nearby hill and continuosly assault the city with bombards tribushes and cannons and then after wasting the city charge my whole army into the heart of the city and slaughter every single civilion and soldier and then burn whats left to the ground. and if anyone did manage to survive i would make them slaves and sell their labor for a thousends pounds of gold.

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Odin 052

#42

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Posts: 290

12/03/08 18:45:22

I tend to play my battles very tediously. Battles that should last 15 minutes may take me an hour. Some may consider this cheating, but I'll pause quite often, and set maneuvering waypoints for my troops. My tactics consist of utilizing numerous units of artillery (sometimes as many as six units). The first few minutes of a battle consist of tedious in 6x speed to secure an advantageous position against my enemy. Once they've stopped moving their forces, I'll move up my artillery with spearmen close behind. I will simply bombard the enemy position until my ammo is exhausted, move my missile infantry forward to skirmish, and then flank the extreme flanks of my enemy with infantry and cavalry. If they attempt to attack my position, I can always move my infantry forward to engage, at which point I prevent my artillery from firing into my own forces (once I've repositioned my artillery, I target enemy missile troops if they have any). Once my spearmen are fighting, I usually have two or three units of crossbowmen supported by heavy or light cavalry flank both the left and right sides of the enemy. The cavalry protects the archers from enemy cavalry charges while they fire missiles into the exposed flanks of the enemy. If I'm severely outnumbered, I will put my spearmen in Guard mode. While they will kill fewer enemies, they will last considerably longer without routing, which allows my far more devastating missile infantry to rack up, usually, hundreds of kills. As a result of this careful planning and strategy, I rarely fight a battle where an enemy stack is not completely obliterated. I would say that about 9 out of 10 battles result in the complete destruction of the enemy force. It's nothing really much to brag about, because it's not very difficult to do. It all comes down to inflicting quick, devastating attacks. Gradual battles, where infantry simply whittle away at each other forever, usually result in higher casualties for the player. You're best bet is to utilize shock and awe tactics. The more casualties, obviously, that you can inflict quickly, the faster the enemy army will route. Hence the numerous artillery pieces. 12 trebuchets launching flaming projectiles is a terrifying sight to behold. As an enemy army approaches, they will usually take maybe two dozen hits before they can even get into skirmishing range.

This is especially true if I'm using cannons and gunpowder. Musketeers, properly used, are probably the most devastating infantry unit in the game. I see a lot of hate coming their way from other players, but their ability to engage at extreme ranges, and disable more heavily armored units, makes them invaluable. I will often target heavy cavalry first. especially a general's bodyguard unit. Muskets do, what, something like 15-16 ranged damage at base. With one to two units of musketeers concentrating on a single enemy unit, you can literally halve their numbers before they even reach you. You can even halt cavalry charges with concentrated fire. The AI prefers to place their heavy infantry on the flanks. Similarly, I'll do the same with my musketeers, and target the enemy's feudal nights, or late period men-at-arms. Heavy infantry units containing 90 men will have no more than 30 to 45 men before they reach my lines. Once that unit has been weakened, I charge it with heavy cavalry, and then focus my ranged attacks on another target. Even an experienced unit of dismounted nights, once weakened like that, will fold after even a frontal cavalry charge. My late period armies will consist of six to eight units of musketeers, two to three units of heavy to light cavalry (in addition to a general), four to six units of artillery, and whatever assorted infantry I desire. The use of overwhelming firepower from artillery and missile units, if properly used, can reduce your enemy's forces by 25-40% before they can even reach you. By the time they reach you, they are so shell-shocked and demoralized, that some careful flanking will send even the most disciplined force into a full route. I tend not to lose any more than 2-4% of my forces per battle, while inflicting 90-100% causalities on an enemy force. Once again, not a difficult thing to do. It just takes patience to maneuver your forces, and the proper application of firepower to force your opponent into a situation where they must go on the offensive. Not to mention the AI is relatively stupid. Bragging about inflicting 100% casualties against the AI is like bragging about knocking an ice-cream-cone out of five year-old's hands.

Heavy infantry is nice, but if you look at your after battle-reports, you will always note that a majority of the killing is done by your missile troops, and your cavalry: while powerful infantry units have trouble (at times) breaking even in Kill/Death ratio. The best strategies I have seen, and have used, utilize heavy and light infantry to maximize the damage your missile units and cavalry inflict.

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Cheeseinator

#43

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Posts: 140

12/03/08 23:13:15

Late game I use home made Tericho pike formations, just as they did in the 16th century. 4 units of pikemen, 4 units musketeers or aquebusiers, and 4 units of heavy infantry. Stick one of each in a group and line them up in the following way. Gunners in front spread out 2 ranks deep. Put the Pikemen right behind them also 2 ranks deep so close that the pikes stick out well beyond the gunners. And behind them the heavy infantry.

Advance each of the groups in range of the enemy and let the led fly. Should the enemy advance and attempt to engage the Tericho groups not only will they advancing under fire but also they shall find a wall of pikes waiting for them. If they do make the pikemen will do a good job of keeping the gunners alive and sending in the heavy infantry to engage the enemy will see them off quick. I arrange the lines accordingly depending on the dispostion of the enemy forces including half circles and V's to help gaurd my flanks. They are slow moving and require a lot of micro-managing to organize but I've found the use of these Tericho formations to be an idestructable juggernaut on the battlefield. Or course I have artillery support to deal out damage from long range and I use heavy calvary to gaurd my flanks and arty and to mop up after the enemy has broken.

Screenies:

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Frank Dale

I need a title?

#44

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Posts: 693

12/04/08 01:07:00

Knight

darian1107 wrote:
...Imagine 6 squads of crossbows firing all at once, or archers in the same amount firing fire arrows instead....

Why stop at 6? I like 10 to 12 if I can manage it.

That way my infantry get to rest in the shade while I blot out the Sun with my missiles.

Seriously, is there anything more awesome than watching an enemy unit get hit by 12x120 = 1440 arrows at a time? I love seeing what percentage of their total I can kill in the first volley. I've gotten as high as 2/3rds for infantry units, and beyond 80% casualties in one volley for weak cavalry units. I seriously love zooming in on a hapless bunch of pikemen getting mutilated by my "woman's stratagem of throwing things" at them.

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Frank Dale

#45

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Posts: 693

12/04/08 02:05:33

Knight

@ Odin 052: I just HAVE to reply to a post like that! Nice to see someone who thinks like I do in so many ways...

1) I am not so "tedious" in battles as you are, but I do like to occasionally have a battle where I plan everything so carefully, and pause often and contemplate the next best move, that in the end I take huge pride in my flawless execution and huge casualty ratio. Which is like being proud of knocking ice cream out of a kid's hand, love that analogy. :-) I often allow myself to get a bit reckless in battle, due in part to being impatient, and also sometimes when there are like 4 things going on that need my attention, if I can I will avoid pausing most of the time. I'm not sure why, maybe I want to believe that I'm like the real general in battle, and can handle things as they happen in real time; but if things get real bad I will pause, it's only a game and meant to be fun...I hate people who take it way too seriously and think of it like some life/death test of their mettle, considering any form of "cheating" a capital crime. The AI IS stupid for the most part, predictable if you study it long enough, and so you can adjust accordingly and always defeat it.....and that's the fun of the game, winning. With carnage. :-D

I used to coach a friend who would play only at my house (he runs Linux at home, hehe), in his HRE campaign. Being his war master, guiding him through battles successfully, I learned what a HUGE difference it makes to pause the game, and truly take your time to THINK of what the next best move is. I still don't pause that often myself, but sometimes I do and it pays off big. I guess I don't think on my toes like I wish I did. ;-)

2) I too spend a huge amount of time maneuvering for advantageous position. That is SO crucial to improving your odds, lowering your casualties. Once in awhile like I said I get reckless, but only when I know I will still survive despite the higher casualties.

3) I can often get my missile units to get far more kills than any other unit as well. Especially long-range archer units with the ap ability, I will get as many as 300-400 under ideal conditions.....like placing them on walls just to the left of the central square in the typical European "Castle" level- just fire down into that mass of bodies all day long.

4) Complete obliteration of the enemy force, about 3 out of 4 times for me. The 1 out of 4 is when several hundred enemy escape because I didn't bring enough cav to chase / capture them all while routing, or they had a lot of fast-fleeing cav units. That's one reason I love going heavy on the archers- a fleeing man hit by an arrow is still a death, not a capture! (big deal for me since I often try to be chivalrous and release prisoners, gaining good reputation.)

5) 12 trebuchets!!! Two dozen hits!!! I'll have to try that some time! Tell me, what do you usually use for the remaining 8 slots?

6) On the topic of breaking the enemy, I use the same tactics to utterly shatter enemy morale and get even the toughest units to route quickly. Missile fire is a morale blow, but gunpowder missile fire is terrifying to them.

Getting hit by flaming missiles, hit by artillery fire of any kind (especially the flaming kind, and gunpowder types!), fighting "frightening" enemy infantry, fighting a cavalry unit if you're a foot unit, not having your flank protected, being surrounded to varying degrees, having routing units running through your own, having enemy units mixed in with your own!, having your general/captain killed, rotting cow carcasses, taking a high rate of casualties in a small amount of time (missiles! charges!), being nearby an overwhelming number of enemy units, quivering in terror at the tales told about my "dread" general who you now see approaching with a sword dripping with blood (LOL!), etc.......there are just SO MANY ways to terrorize the enemy and get them running quick! Even the impetuous units, I can usually get them running for the hills in short order.

7) I agree about heavy infantry being inefficient in kill ratios, compared to the numbers that archers and heavy cav can rack up. For the longest time it frustrated me that I could not get my infantry to gain experience, but I finally learned you can only put infantry in certain situations where they have an edge, but not so big an edge that they kill like 60 peasants and the other 180 run away. Heavy infantry against spear units is ideal, since spear have a penalty fighting other foot units. Also in city battles where the enemy will not be able to "escape" in the end, it's nice taking in 2 heavy infantry units to take on 5-6 mediocre to moderate enemy foot units. They will get so many kills you're guaranteed experience promotions, and if they're ever in a tight spot send the general around to hit the enemy from behind or get one of your archers up on the walls, and it's over quickly.

8) Question for you: do you ever adopt a defensive "box" formation even though you are the aggressor, and let the enemy try in futility to envelop you? I like doing this with spear units protecting all 4 sides of a box formation (sometimes I'll make a triangle if I don't have enough spears/pikes), with a huge missile force in the middle, perhaps my general guarding part of one flank. This is especially fun if you are on a high point of a battlefield and can look down in all directions, or if you can get yourself backed into a corner of the map, and just let your archers fire out at will behind an impenetrable wall of spears, polearms, etc.

This is one of my favorite tactics, going back to RTW where I once was playing as the Greeks, and I had 8 units of Armored Hoplites along with some ballistas and archers and the general, attacked by the Scipii in the middle of Sicily. The enemy had TONS of Equites, so I just picked the highest hill in the field and formed an octagon with my Hoplites, facing out in all directions with everything else inside. (I even take the time to make sure there are NO gaps between each unit, and some overlap at the "corners".) I called it The Battle of Octagon Hill, hehe. There were so many dead horses the carcasses would have piled into a wall 10 feet high! Battle ended tragically though- my own general tried to charge OUTward from his spot, through his own phalanx formation- planted his face squarely on someone's spear and died instantly right at the end of the battle. LOL!
I still have screen shots of that glorious day. Ahhh, nostalgic memories...

9) One last question: I'm curious what your strategy is against the Mongols & Timurids? For someone who thinks like I do, I'd like to see what you do since I am actually not that good against them.

Sorry for the equally verbose reply! I have blabby fingers. ;-)

-Frank

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Frank Dale

Cheesinator Synergy!!!

#46

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Posts: 693

12/04/08 02:10:41

Knight

That's what I'm going to call this awesome tactic of yours! Man, that not only looks awesome, I can just imagine the advantage of 3 different unit types acting as one, covering each others' weaknesses, maximizing their strengths! I'm going to try that in my Venetian campaign right now once gunpowder shows up......with Musketeers, Venetian Heavy Infantry and Pike Militia.

I like that even if that unit combo did manage to get enveloped, you can have the polearm units fight in one direction while the heavy infantry counterattack whoever's at your rear! Awesome...

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Odin 052

#47

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Posts: 290

12/04/08 04:10:08

Hi, Frank Dale!

5) 12 trebuchets!!! Two dozen hits!!! I'll have to try that some time! Tell me, what do you usually use for the remaining 8 slots?

Haha, no not 12 literal unit cards, but six unit cards of Trebuchets contain a total 12 trebuchets (2 to each card). This is an early period tactic that I adopt with Ballistas, catapults, and trebuchets.

8) Question for you: do you ever adopt a defensive "box" formation even though you are the aggressor, and let the enemy try in futility to envelop you? I like doing this with spear units protecting all 4 sides of a box formation (sometimes I'll make a triangle if I don't have enough spears/pikes), with a huge missile force in the middle, perhaps my general guarding part of one flank. This is especially fun if you are on a high point of a battlefield and can look down in all directions, or if you can get yourself backed into a corner of the map, and just let your archers fire out at will behind an impenetrable wall of spears, polearms, etc.

I don't usually adopt a box formation. I usually keep my infantry in a linear formation, or, depending on the terrain, I'll adopt a convex or concave arrangement. The only times I've adopted a box formation are on occasions where I'm completely surrounded by two or three enemy stacks (which doesn't happen too often). Single AI stacks do not, in my experience, try to outflank you very often. I cannot remember the last time I saw the AI take a sizable chunk of their infantry and wheel them around the extreme ends of my flanks. They will do that with cavalry, on the other hand. I like to use a linear formation because I can more quickly direct infantry that haven't been engaged (or have repulsed an enemy unit) to assist my other forces.

9) One last question: I'm curious what your strategy is against the Mongols & Timurids? For someone who thinks like I do, I'd like to see what you do since I am actually not that good against them.

The way I deal with the Mongols and the Timurids is actually part of my greater strategy. The Mongols and the Timurid are weak in sieges. They lack any notable heavy infantry for that gritty wall-taking work. Any time I'm playing a faction with territory on the Mediterranean, or to the East (such as Poland, Hungary, or RUSSIA), my principle concern is capturing trade rich territory from the Egyptians. I do this to buffer myself, strategically, against the Mongol and Timurid invasions. I'm currently playing as the Venetians, and after fortifying myself in the boot of Italy and in the Balkans, I immediately sent several small task forces to Antioch, Jurusulem, Gaza, and a few other places I can't remember right now (this is about 10-15 turns in). I essentially cripple the Egyptians in about 4 turns, raze the settlements I capture (I don't slaughter inhabitants), and then repair the damage. Everything I build from this point on is essentially designed to repel the imminate Mongol invatsion and subsequent Timurid invations, and build the economy for revenue. I don't usually worry too much about the remaining Muslim factions: both the Egyptian and Ottoman AI are poor in sieges, as they like to lay siege with mostly Horse Archers and missile infantry. This has to be done early, though, because you want to quickly regenerate the lost population so you can build better walls and acquire ballitsta/cannon towers by the time the Timurids arrive. I always have two units of Mortars in many of these settlements as well (once gunpowder becomes availabe). Mortars have the ability to fire over walls, and they're somewhat accurate. Basically, once my cities are adequately fortified, I develop their economy, and then reap in revenue before the inevitable Mongol and Timurid invasions begin. As the Venetians, was able to fortify my settlements, and begin developing my economy by the time the Mongols arrived (no ballista towers yet), but I can still position small forces at choke points around bridges and mountain passes, essentially funneling their forces into meat grinders. I lucked out as the Venetians, and the Mongol horde appeared to the north in Russia. They quickly eliminated the Russians, and now I'm dealing with a Mongol super-state. The Timurids have just appeared, and are tearing their way through Ottoman territory. Most of my settlements are armed with cannon towers, though, so let them come.

Also, when fighting at bridges, use those trebuchets to lauch those plague cows at the other end. Every unit that wants to engage your forces has to pass through a insufferable cloud of poision gas.

The Mongol's advantage stems entirely from their mobility. If I can't lure them into a siege battle, I'll secure those chokepoints I was talking about earlier. You can also have your General build forts, and garrison them with smaller forces. When confronting the Mongols in open terrain, your best bet is to deploy an INSANE amount of missile infantry and artillery. The Venetians have a decent milita crossbowmen that I could recruit, so I mostly employ forces composed as such: 8 units of Crossbowmen, six units of artillery (balista and trebuchet), two units of light cavalry, one unit of heavy cavalry (usually my general), and the rest spearmen. They have to be composed like this because A. they're cheap (no heavy infantry), and B. you might need a couple if the Mongols come at you hard. Depending on the configuation of the Mongol force I'm fighting, the organzation will chage. But I normally have no less than six units of Crossbomen. Crossbowmen, in my experience, are more adept at dealing with cavalry, so they'll preform adequately here. The crossbowmen, in close fire-support with your artillery, should provide enough concentrated fire to deter even the most brazen cavalry unit. Part of the campaighn map strategy, if you decide to go on the offensive against the mongols, should be to isolate the stacks. Lure them apart, if you can. I haven't really developed a fool proof way of doing this, so if you make some progress, let us all know. Once again, though, I highly discourage the strategy of leaving your fortifications to engage the mongols. I never engage them in the open unless I have to. Rather, I use Elite units inside fortified positions. I've been able to kill two stacks at a time (although with 50% casualities to myself) using a siege based defensive strategy.

For the Timurids, I highly suggest the SAME strategy. As England, I was able to successfully defend Jurusalem six times in a row with against full Timirud stacks. I eventually lost, but you get the point.

You can use the strategies above, or you can hire something to the tune of 30 assassins and go on a general killing rampage.

There was also a very good discussion on the subject here: http://www.twcenter.net/f...ms/showthread.php?t=71138

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Frank Dale

#48

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Posts: 693

12/07/08 01:40:53

Knight

KingLarsofMars wrote:
Send the knights charging forward!

I actually did that against a French army about 3 times my size and won :D

Yeah, I love winning Heroic Victories by the computer not taking into account that my cavarly can kill HUNDREDS of enemy infantry per unit with each charge. If there are none or very few spear/pike units, and little to no cavalry, I will CRUSH every infantryman and missile troop into dust, given flat open terrain.

Something so sweet about 4 heavy cav units on a routine trip to somewhere, when suddenly a huge force of enemy troops attempts to pounce on them. Wrong move, scum! CHAAAAARRRRRRRGE!!!!

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darian1107

#49

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Posts: 114

12/09/08 09:30:48

Why stop at 6? I like 10 to 12 if I can manage it.

That way my infantry get to rest in the shade while I blot out the Sun with my missiles.

Seriously, is there anything more awesome than watching an enemy unit get hit by 12x120 = 1440 arrows at a time? I love seeing what percentage of their total I can kill in the first volley. I've gotten as high as 2/3rds for infantry units, and beyond 80% casualties in one volley for weak cavalry units. I seriously love zooming in on a hapless bunch of pikemen getting mutilated by my "woman's stratagem of throwing things" at them.

Haha I would to, but i prefer a balanced army, with infantry and spears, supported by cav... of coz archers always in large numbers... i think 10 or 12 is like overkill...

Haha reminds me of the movie 300, where one of the Spartan noted : Then we get to fight in the shade" when the Persian told them they hav an army of archers at their disposal. Or was it the Arcadian that told him. can't rmb...

KingLarsofMars wrote:
Send the knights charging forward!

I actually did that against a French army about 3 times my size and won :D
Yeah, I love winning Heroic Victories by the computer not taking into account that my cavarly can kill HUNDREDS of enemy infantry per unit with each charge. If there are none or very few spear/pike units, and little to no cavalry, I will CRUSH every infantryman and missile troop into dust, given flat open terrain.

Something so sweet about 4 heavy cav units on a routine trip to somewhere, when suddenly a huge force of enemy troops attempts to pounce on them. Wrong move, scum! CHAAAAARRRRRRRGE!!!!

Yeah lots of times i just send a unit of my general's bodyguards on rebel hunting... i just love charging headlong into a wall of spears. End tally? rebel spearmen heavy casualties, almost routing; my general maybe 1 or 2 losses, still eager for second charge. heck during my French campaign, my 2 generals, Raolet Potlevin ( think I got the spelling wrong) and Guilemont de Lyon was made man of the hours 10s to those trips, and boy were they fertile!!! they were like baby-producing machines every few turns...

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Frank Dale

#50

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Posts: 693

12/09/08 20:09:50

Knight

darian1107 wrote:
Haha I would to, but i prefer a balanced army, with infantry and spears, supported by cav... of coz archers always in large numbers... i think 10 or 12 is like overkill...

Haha reminds me of the movie 300, where one of the Spartan noted : Then we get to fight in the shade" when the Persian told them they hav an army of archers at their disposal. Or was it the Arcadian that told him. can't rmb...

I used to play with armies balanced equally, between heavy infantry, spear, missile and cav. Then I started using lots of cavalry. And lately I just use tons of archers/crossbowmen for open field battle, for city-taking no more than 4. I guess I like being completely dominant in one regard instead of so balanced that no one segment of your army does exceptional, in the kill total.
Sometimes I even go heavy on the artillery and bring like 10 trebuchets (20 on battlefield!) to take a fortress....just so I never have to worry about running out of ammo and so I can take down walls, towers, gateways and gates FAST. :-)

That line from "300" is one of the only things from that movie that was based on the historic record. Leonidas supposedly did say that line when told of the Persians' arrows blotting out the Sun. I personally prefer this quote when it comes to Spartans: "The Spartans do not ask how many, but where they are." That said, I believe it was the battle of Marathon where they didn't even make it to the battlefield in time to see the other Greeks crush the Persian force near the beach. Which reminds me of one of the quotes from M2TW: "It is better to be on hand with ten men, than absent with ten thousand." :-D

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Ragni

#51

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Posts: 4

12/10/08 01:27:45

When fighting in a land battle, I do one of two things, attack or defend. Here is my 'land defensive' strategy.
I mainly use 2-6 or so of each of the following - archers, spearmen(long or short) along with shock troops.

My main strategy is to use 1-2 light melee horsemen (if I have any) to stay back and gallop to the two side flanks and use them to attack routers and/or archers while infantry are fighting other infantry.

I use shock troops in my first line and attack once in charge range(one unit per one unit, aka those in front of the shock troops).

With my spearmen/long spearmen I put one unit of spearmen on each side of my archers in a 3-4 column while my archers are in a 2 column line formation. I have the remaining of my spearmen clumped in the middle between the two spearmen formations and put them in a small clump in a square or half circle formation. Not only will this force the enemy to attack them as they are a large clump of enemies, but it gives time for the 4 or so archers formations to attack with minimal loss's.

Once the clump of spearmen are attacked, I flank the infantry attacking them with the remaining/fleeing shock troops that I have from behind. I also send my 4 or so archers behind enemie lines and have them face the infantry that are attacking my spearmen. This will again in effect route the enemie and kill a LOT of infantry with minimal loss's as you are now shooting arrows behind the enemie.

In other words, two light horsemen on each flank, attack with shock troops in the middle, keep a clump of 'boxed' spearmen between shock troops and archers with two spearmen on the side of the boxed spearmen. Keep the archers behind in two piles. works like a charm, especially if you have wooden stakes!

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Wolfhound

#52

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Posts: 175

12/11/08 00:55:41

An interesting tactic I developed for use against the Mongol and Timurid hordes. It's fairly effective though risky and will allow the defender in a siege to fend off vastly superior forces, providing you can hold the walls and force the bulk of the enemy army through a single gate.

Put all your spearmen that you can, preferably 3 groups or more, in a square |_| formation on the inside of the gate. If you only have two units of spearmen a V formation will do but its a little scarier. Put them on guard mode. This will leave open space just on the inside of the gate. When the huge enemy force breaks down the gate they will charge in and fill this space, as long as the spears hold... That's why you place a catapult or trebuchet just behind your spears and make sure that flaming ammo is on. After taking several good whallops and likely losing a general everybody in that space will rout and run out... leave your spears in place, reposition as necessary and wait for the horde's next wave, if you can handle it. If it's the Timurids, and elephants are involved, the effect is positively humorous.

This is a little tricky as some settlements don't quite have enough room for these formations behind the gate and artillery doesn't shoot well in cramped places. I just lost Jerusalem to the Mongols in my Danish campaign this way because I hadn't had time to upgrade it from minor city since getting it and the area at the gate was real bad for this sort of thing. I managed to kill almost 3000 mongols before being overrun though.

Some notes on the tactic: I haven't tested it with gunpowder artillery, but it doesn't look like most of the cannons have a good trajectory for shooting over the spearmen into the mass of enemy so I'm not optimistic. Also, if the enemy have any siege weapons like trebuchets, cannons, or the like I might send a couple cavalry units out on suicide missions to try and disable them. Only if defeat is certain otherwise though.

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Generalissimo73

#53

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Posts: 95

12/11/08 11:25:10

my favorite Nation is always Hungary. so this is what i do make an army with 4 pavise spearmen, 3 Bosnian archers behind them. and my ganeral directly behind the archers. then 2 units of croat axemen positioned 1 on each flank of my archers. then i have 4 units of hungarian nobles spread far wide of my main force 2 on each flank paired with a Hussar unit on either side with nobles..

i huddle up my spearmen & archers defensive mode and wait as the enemy closes in. while the enemy marches in ive already sent my Hungarian nobles & hussars out to meet the enemy. the nobiles will stay out of mele and fire arrows untill they are complely out then i run them back behind my spearmen to use as heavy cavalry if needed. by then the enemies spearmen are quite chewd up & my hussars have eaten most of the archers and returned to m main lin to wait for the enemy cavaly/infantry to meet me. then my poor foot archers pepper the enemy untill they come crash apon the wall of spearmen. vs's the AI it always works. for super heavy armies i have a full army of nothing but hungarian nobles and A general. i will usually send in that army to soften up any army untill im out of arrows then i will retreat and "lose" the battle and then attack the army with my previous more balanced unit.

The only nations that i have disfficulty with is a strong milan. they just pump out too many spear militia & pavice crossbow militia.!

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SSJPabs

#54

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Posts: 1637

12/11/08 11:41:35

Post Captain

Wolfhound wrote:
An interesting tactic I developed for use against the Mongol and Timurid hordes. It's fairly effective though risky and will allow the defender in a siege to fend off vastly superior forces, providing you can hold the walls and force the bulk of the enemy army through a single gate.

It's one of the riskier variations I've encountered, I'll give you that. It never works for me because my catapults always just miss and fry my own men no matter where I put them, I like to use AP missiles like mounted xbows, javelins, naffatun. And while the U spear box works, I find it works better to make a square, but the top of the square isn't men, it's stakes. Then put heavy infantry in the U. The horses die on the spikes the infantry massacre the enemy infantry. I'll usually layer a spear unit in there just in case horses escape the stakes.

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ChivalrousKnight

#55

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Posts: 101

12/12/08 16:23:42

I like to try risky tactics but they seem to pay off for me. I have tried many different combinations of unit types and positions and have come to the conclusion that if you have early game units and you on the offence try to use crossbow men (2-4 units) instead of archers, get some simple spear militia (4-6 units) if possible with a padded armour upgrade, add a couple of Med to Heavy infantry (Sword men, Mace men, etc. About 4-6 units) and about 4-6 units of Cavalry Mailed knights work but I like to use generals (More power in the charge).

Form these men into two equal but opposing forces facing each other in a V shape with a gap in between
( ** --\ _ _ /-- ** )

Spear men ( \ )go in the front and act as the V part with Heavy infantry ( -- ) on the flanks acting as the support but just back a little from the actual side of the unit and behind but facing in the direction of the enemy.

Crossbow men ( _ _ ) go in the middle gap about 15-20 infanrty units from the tip of the Spear men, the other heavy infantry go behind them.

Your Cavalry ( ** ) go to the extreme flanks of the whole army to flank.

If the enemy engages you they will go for the centre alowing your units to flank and your Xbow men to fall back, while your Cavalry moves around to encompess them. If done properly you can beat an army twice your size by hitting them on all sides forcing them to break and run. Only a Enemy General with high Dread can counter this tactic.

Another Tactic I use for Defensive battles is to form into an OMEGA shape on the highest terrain around with my archers sitting slightly back and above so they can shoot over my men. Using the same number and styles of men as my last example I place my Spears in front forming the upper cirlce part with the flanks supported by the heavy infantry forming the last part of the circle in an L shape formation ( make sure to bring the OMEGA shape back in on its self a little at those points ). Place all you cavalry behind facing out towards the flanks in both directions ready to charge.
__
_( )_
* *

Once you enemy engages you wait for a bit until most of the units are on the spears, then bring around the heavy infantry for the flank while sending your cavalry to the extreme flank. While your Heavy infantry engaged the flanks of the enemy move your cavalry around to complete the circle effectivly truning your OMEGA shape around on them, surronding them with only one way out.

Note: DO NOT make you lines to thin about 4 units deep should hold out for both of these tactics to work.
Note: This will not work against armies that are heavy in archers or cavalry as they are to mobile.
Note: DO NOT leave your cavalry engaged with the eanamy pull them back and charge again and again in order to maximize their effect.

Last Man standing Tatic - If your are heavily out numbered and have only some infantry a couple archers and cavalry from them up together on the highest point forming a circle protecting all your flanks, make the units facing the enemy deeper then the ones protecting the flanks, place your archers in the middle and your cavalry behind the circle and outside of it. Once the enemy is closer take you cavalry around them and attack the general, if some units come to his aid pull away in the opposite direction of your troops, this will draw there general away from his men and you can kill him. Commit your cavalry until he is killed then and only then can you bring them to the aid of your men hitting the enemy in the rear.

These are just a couple that I use depending on the race and unit types I have.

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Skaboots

#56

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Posts: 478

12/15/08 20:24:14

I usually go for the higher ground, but besides that I use archers to weaken enemy infantry while sending cavalry behind their army. Depending on the situation a full out assault with infantry at the enemies center so the enemy will "surround my forces" but not too much which may seem stupid, but I then send cavalry charging at the enemy troops that are fighting my infantry's flank. Sometimes I evenly distribute my army with the enemy one for equal combat sending my horses behind and charging.

For sieges I send my best troops on the walls to fight off climbers, usually when I defeat them all, my gate is still not broken and when my gate is broken I concentrate my entire army at the gate so flanking is impossible for the enemy and the fighting is at one spot, arrows from towers and boiling oil from the keep also takes the enemy out while I concentrate at the gate.

PS: I like you idea Cheeseinater I'll have to try that.

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aftermath

#57

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Posts: 41

12/16/08 06:06:25

Hi...this is my tactic for most armies. I never exceed 15 units in a stack. With a full stack of 20 you can't lose. With 15 units they take more casualties so again that makes the game more difficult. It's difficult to fight more than 1 or 2 battles without retraining.
I have ..general and 4 knights, 4 pike or spears, 1 swordsman and 5 missile. I put the pike in the front line with the swordsman behind one of them. I space them out so that there are large gaps to fire through. General I put on one wing where he can help out easily. I send the cavalry forward to try and get in the enemies rear. I use them to take out any artillery and the enemy general. My general I use to scare off skirmishing enemy missiles which run to the rear and are then eliminated in detail by the cavalry The cavalry are then in a position to charge the rear of any enemy in contact with the pike. Against horse archer armies I have 2 extra cavalry and no sword and one less pike. See how you go with that..it never fails Richard

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darian1107

#58

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Posts: 114

12/16/08 08:59:56

I'm definitely gonna try Cheeseinator's tactic. Would be fun with Pike Militias, Monster Ribaults, and Musketeers in a line up like that. Haha i'm gonna chew through the Horde like that...

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Peacemaker EAF92

#59

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Posts: 4993

12/16/08 09:14:02

I just send in assassins and spies to their cities, kill their generals and cause riots then bribe until they join me!

Seriously, I tend to take my time too. My battles do last anything up to an hour or more... But I `m just a bit too busy to type it all here.

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Sultan

#60

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Posts: 10

12/17/08 07:13:45

My favorite faction is egypt. And I usually has two types of field armies.
One with a general and rest are pure mameluk archer. highly mobile and can take a beating if neccesary.Just ride at them in two colums that takes each flank, and let them use most of their arrows weakening the enemy. Spare a few rounds of arrows for the charge. Nice having couple of volleys hitting the enemy units just prior to impact.
The other are usually set up with 4 saracens, 3-4 nappthatun, som arab cav and mameluk archers, some missiles and artillery (usually at least 3catapults or cannons) and a few hassashin as heavy inf to counter and finish off. Let the saracen walk slowly forward with the nap right behind them and missiles to the flanks, hassashin moves either behind or to the flanks. cav are mobile to where opportunities come and artillery are support and moralweakeners. whenever the enemy closes they hit the saracen spears and the nap makes sure they break with heavy losses. and the cav moves in to finish them. I always have at least 3 napptha in every army that isn't pure cav. they are my supreme killers in both field and siege. usually there are more than three.
As a support for major attacks where I have one of each of these working together I usually send one with al sorts of mercs that have strengths my units lack and 2 generals. When I'm besieging or just want som fodder I declear a jihad and by some magic I have lots of cheap, not so bad fodder with good moral. And that without asking a pmt ridden cleric in rome.

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