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Pieceofcake	Rome technology tree?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 69 12/26/07 07:54:52	Tags : cavalry, carthage, technology, slingers, cohort, band I didn't know quite how to put this but I have noticed that as I play Carthage I am only allowed to make one unit per city. However, I noticed that all Roman cities seem to be pumping out three at a time. If I have one frontier city surrounded by three Roman cities (within forced marching distance), I have noticed that when I destroy one legion another pops up in its place and continues the siege where the last one left off! This is quite infuriating as it won't let me rebuild or make a new unit (notice the "a" there!) Also they have rock hard as nails Urban Cohort and Praetorian Guard units. In one siege I ran three full units of slingers up to one unit of Urban Cohort - that's a lot of men slinging stones. After they ran out of missiles I checked the U.C. stats and I had killed three. 'Erm? what a waste of ammo! However, a good point to this is that a unit of Legionary cav were behind them and all the stones that bounced off their shields killed 10 of them . Has Carthage got anything else to offer apart from my Sacred Band hoplites which can only be produced in Southern Spain -(why just there?). I know the elephant are good but they scare too easily and run amok most times. I think that the Romans get better stuff as by this time I think Carthage was not around or not as good a force as before. So to speak the Carthage technology has reached its upper ceiling which is a ground floor flat compared to the Roman high risers!
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Freakofnnaat		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 53 12/26/07 13:18:10	If your playing on a campaign thats more difficult them medium, im about 90% sure that the AI is just getting a major bonus to their production. Im also pretty sure that all non-Roman factions can rise to the large city category and have relavant buildings that are just as good, with the exception of barbarians.
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PilumChucker		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 46 12/26/07 17:54:41	The Romans are tough. I'm playing as the Germans and have almost 40 provinces including Rome...yet I fear the onslaught of post-Marian units from what is left of the Brutii and Scipii. Needless to say I'm putting a stranglehold on their production (via naval blockades) and hoping I can wipe them out before the UBER units get to me.
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sendos		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 169 12/26/07 20:09:46	actually if u start putting the romans in a very bad position, like all the roman families r weak, the post-marius troops will happen at a later time.
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Seleucos of Olympia		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4817 12/27/07 06:56:10 Tribune	Urban cohorts have lots of armour and good shields. To do the most damage try to attack them with slingers from behind or from their right, so their shields won't come into effect. I haven't played Carthage in vanilla enough to notice if you can only train Sacred Band in certain cities, but in that case it makes sense that they can only be train in Carthage and "New Carthage" (in southern Iberia). Armoured Elephants are not to be taken lightly, and you also have sacred band cavalry. Use your phalanx infantry to contain the Romans and then hit them from behind with cavalry/elephants. Unless you are playing a mod there is no way a Roman or any city can produce more than one unit per turn. If more show up they must be either arriving from cities further away, contingents from hidden armies or mercenaries.
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Dieu le fera		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 203 12/27/07 07:23:18	An awesome temple to Baal in a city will allow you to build the sacred band. It doesn't matter what the location is they are just specific to that building.
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Sacred Bandman		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1297 12/27/07 07:58:46	yes you need an awesome temple to baal. in the question of elephants.. you should be able to make armored elephants already. if not... the way to use them still stays the same ; use them to batter the enemy main line. But dont stop there or they will definitely rout. move them back and forth. key rule is to keep them moving. they're dead if they keep still. a tip for slinger.. hire them the skirmishers and slingers Carthage has to offer suck.. archers from crete, slingers from iberia. bealearc slingers are the best imo. thats about it.. you have to have at least the poeni infantry as your main battle anchor. sacred band..when they come.. will dominate with the addition of SB cav. and never auto resolve a battle with the romans lol. you will always lose. They have a Major advantage in the game.
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theglobalizer		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 226 12/27/07 09:52:39	^^ Methinks this guy knows about Sacred Bands. Just a hunch.
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Appius The Wrathful		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 752 12/27/07 10:52:19	I don't think it makes sense that a city can only produce one unit at a time. Afterall, you have to build all those buildings (stables, barracks, target range, etc), so each building should produce the relevant units. So if you have stables and barracks in a town, logically you should be able to train one unit of infantry and one unit of cavalry in one turn.
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theglobalizer		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 226 12/27/07 12:05:33	The issue is, I think, the # of citizens you're using, not the facilities.
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Seleucos of Olympia		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4817 12/27/07 12:15:56 Tribune	There are mods that introduce militia units with a recruitment time of zero, and we have the M2TW case where you can recruit up to 3 units at a time in a single castle. But in vanilla RTW one unit per turn per city is the upper limit. It's doesn't change with the difficulty level.
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sendos		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 169 12/27/07 18:58:13	to seleucos, actually retraining also takes 0 turns but its exactly the same as 1 turn to recruit. But since u talk of mods, maybe this is something i havent seen before. Dont think AI has bonuses in all categories. i know for sure that they create a unit at each city one each turn (also in hard level they recruit mercenaries in BI). this "bonuses" thing depends on difficulty. I agree wit seleucos with the recruitment bit.
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Seleucos of Olympia		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4817 12/28/07 09:38:04 Tribune	You're right about retraining. It had slipped my mind. In M2TW retraining takes up training slots, so you can't train or re-train more than three units at a time, but in RTW you can retrain a whole army in one turn. A bit too convenient at times (which is probably why they changed it in M2TW) but in any case efficient.
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Pieceofcake		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 69 12/28/07 14:11:01	Some very good points here - I have tried the tactic of running up some really suck awful slingers up to the Urban cohorts and place balearic slingers at the flanks. As they sling away 3 out 5 times the UC gives chase and I run the Balearics round the back as my crappy white Carthagian slingers peg it. This I found does the trick to slay a few more. Risky when they turn round and go back to their line. This is when the the rubbish ole white slingers turn and hit them, while my greeny Balearics run to the side quickly. The Sacred band are great but I can't seem to get the foundry up to match the Romans armour. Each time I save a bit of cash some catastrophe happens or 10 of my ports get blockaded... or the city in question starts rioting. I have an awesome temple of Baal in Carthage and this only gives me Sacred Band cav not the infantry which is odd. I have found that I can only train my elephants in Africa which seems reasonable to expect - however I have noticed little camel icons in my provinces. Does this mean at some time I would be able to make camel rider units? Or is there a possibility of hiring them? To date none have shown up to fleece me of coinage!
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Seleucos of Olympia		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4817 12/28/07 14:25:30 Tribune	The camel icons are mostly for the benefit of Numidia, a faction that can recruit camel units if it conquers those regions. There aren't any camel rider mercenaries in North Africa. You'll have to go as far as Egypt to hire such mercenaries. What difficulty level are you playing at? In higher difficulties the AI units get bonuses to their skill stats, which give them an unnatural advantage over your own units (it does not affect how they receive damage from arrows or rocks, though).
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Pieceofcake		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 69 12/29/07 06:42:13	I am playing medium to hard I believe as I am not that good at this but know that I'm a bit better than easy.
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Pieceofcake		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 69 12/29/07 07:10:29	Just a point - in my Carthage campaign Narbo Martius is getting a lot of unwanted attention from the aforementioned uber Roman units. On one occasion one Roman unit comprising of the following - 3 praetorian guards, 2 Urban cohorts, 1 praetorian cav, 1 auxiliary, 1 missile unit , scorpion and the general's unit. I'm getting a little tired of facing such units on the same , same ole terrain. I want to attack Massilia but everytime I defeat a block another three come! Anyhow I had two fully racked armies either side of this Roman army. I looked at the stats which gave me a 75% chance of me winning. So I thought right let the AI resolve it - yeah I know what your saying - stupid idea! I got a "close defeat" - mmm? by how much I thought. I was dismayed to find that my 8 star general was killed, 5 Sacred band units were reduced to 20 odd men each and regrouped into one unit. My peoni infantry likewise but not as severe, my elephants had one left, 50 of my slingers in each unit were gone, they didn't rank together as one is Balearic. All the rest of my infantry had token amounts and my cav was reduced to less than 50%. Not to mention that my onagers had one man left out of 64. Curious i sent a spy to check out the said Roman army to find it had lost only a score or so from each unit. My slingers would have done that on their own given a favourable angle! The AI sucks big time - it doesn't know the difference between Close defeat and a massacre! I regrouped replenished some of my men and took the same unit on again - on my terms - and completely wiped them out! I will never use the AI again as this cost me a fantastic general! Last Edited By: Pieceofcake 12/29/07 07:14:40. Edited 1 time.
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PilumChucker		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 46 12/29/07 16:10:49	sendos wrote: actually if u start putting the romans in a very bad position, like all the roman families r weak, the post-marius troops will happen at a later time. Yeah, I hear you. I drove all of those sandal-wearers off the Italian peninsula thinking that all of the cities with the resource "Italy" were there...but NO I forgot about Sicily, and Marius has reared his ugly head! In hindsight I should have worked harder to slow down the growth of those southern cities while I was pistol-whipping the Gauls (and Britons, and Dacians and...).
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MrMohawk		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 534 12/29/07 18:28:53	Pieceofcake wrote: Just a point - in my Carthage campaign Narbo Martius is getting a lot of unwanted attention from the aforementioned uber Roman units. On one occasion one Roman unit comprising of the following - 3 praetorian guards, 2 Urban cohorts, 1 praetorian cav, 1 auxiliary, 1 missile unit , scorpion and the general's unit. I'm getting a little tired of facing such units on the same , same ole terrain. I want to attack Massilia but everytime I defeat a block another three come! Anyhow I had two fully racked armies either side of this Roman army. I looked at the stats which gave me a 75% chance of me winning. So I thought right let the AI resolve it - yeah I know what your saying - stupid idea! I got a "close defeat" - mmm? by how much I thought. I was dismayed to find that my 8 star general was killed, 5 Sacred band units were reduced to 20 odd men each and regrouped into one unit. My peoni infantry likewise but not as severe, my elephants had one left, 50 of my slingers in each unit were gone, they didn't rank together as one is Balearic. All the rest of my infantry had token amounts and my cav was reduced to less than 50%. Not to mention that my onagers had one man left out of 64. Curious i sent a spy to check out the said Roman army to find it had lost only a score or so from each unit. My slingers would have done that on their own given a favourable angle! The AI sucks big time - it doesn't know the difference between Close defeat and a massacre! I regrouped replenished some of my men and took the same unit on again - on my terms - and completely wiped them out! I will never use the AI again as this cost me a fantastic general! Does nelson muntz laugh HAHA!
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