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twisted |
taking france bankrupted me |
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having played empires since it came out i am not over the moon about the new economic changes. it seems that taking territory is penalised. yesterday evening
was the last straw. I had cut back on about 5 groups of soldiers and retired a few navies to keep money (between 600 to 1600 - a pittance but still a profit)
coming in. Then in an attempt to boost my profits further i took one territory in N america, and at the same time moved my armies in to take paris in a battle
of 2200 of my men vs 4800 of the french. i won but lost over half my force in the battle for paris (which should have cut costs even further) and was looking
forward to the increased profits of owning a strong European economy. I even repaired the main building damaged in Paris to maximise income and happiness. i
should have made a better profit. but instead i got a you are now bankrupt message. wtf. I should be making more money not losing money because of taking a
strong country. i have struggled to make the most of the economic stuff up that has resulted from the last patch, but this takes the cake.
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AviramG |
#1 | |||
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You can't come and take over a huge territorry and expect it to start making profit instantly.
It takes (and should take) a while and, most importantly, an investment of funds before you can start turning a profit.. You certainly can't expect to take several in one turn and expect them all to start turning up a profit. It's like if you play CIV4 and build only settlers and build cities too fast -- you'll go bankrupt and everyone will out-sci you by a huge margin.. you have to work on infrastructure and each new settlement also needs a while to become truly luxurious. That's why you conquer certain provinces for immediate profit (like the rich south indian ones with the gem mines and some south american ones) from mining and trade while others you conquer with an eye to a huge long term benefit, but with bigger investment up-front.. Also, I suspect there's a lot more to the situation than you actually wrote... I bet if you send me the save file I can make a few minor adjustments and you'll be drowning in cash. I haven't found this huge difficulty and bankrupcy some people have been talking about just yet. |
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jrs2993 |
#2 | |||
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It's 1760 and my Army is running me around 70k per turn, and I'm still pulling 30k of profit per turn. My Prussian armies are poised to strike at the
Ottomans, the French and the Dutch. I don't understand what the problem is with everyone else. You just have to gradually build up your provinces,
capture a couple trade nodes and be careful with your money. My empire consisted of 3 provinces until around 1725, and I worried about reaching my 40 province
mission, but now I have a plan and with a good economic base there is no reason why I won't be able to take over the whole of Europe.
You just need to plan better. |
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twisted |
#3 | |||
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thanks for answering guys.
the french had made that investment of funds for me. it was well developed and quite advanced. Sorry, let me be more specific. My question is how can taking a large country result in me making less money than before. why? |
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kublai101 |
#4 | |||
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You spend lots of money keeping order.
It increases administration costs. |
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crisesza |
#5 | |||
I don't think you suddenly went bankrupt because you took France, the administration costs should not turn around your economy completely and take you to bankrupcy. Check the main government screen, and the city management screens in order to see what is making you lose money. Post screenshots here if it's not very clear. I never paid atention to those screens before the patch because economy/management was cakewalk. If you started the campaign before the patch you should read the official statements from CA (Thamis more specifically) to have a good idea on how to manage the cities. Though it's not very difficult to start making over 50k per turn around the middle of a campaign. TAGS: ... wtf ...
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Modestus |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 1251 05/12/09 08:29:08 |
If you lost half your army and then took Paris the level of rebellion must be enormous , I fail to see how you could be collecting taxes at the same time. |
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rubberduck |
#7 | |||
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Check how much money you spend on town watch. I bet you spend a fortune just in France.
It`s like increasing the tax level. Say you increase tax level for the middle class, and you notice your estimated income next turn has in fact been lower than before (check the national summary). If the extra tax level brings in 2000 extra income your town watch expenses may increase with 2500. So you actually loose 500 by increasing the tax level. And I would guess France has like -25/30 public order, meaning you will have to spend a fortune on town watch. |
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Seriozha |
#8 | |||
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I would have to agree that you OP have missed something. I am not saying your a dunce or anything remotely close i am suggesting that since the patch the
economics in the game have become signifigantly more difficult. The game requires a more thorough tweaking as is, watching and changing ministers, establishing
trade partners, monitoring trade routes and ports, and even as simple as whether to build a civilian or military govenors mansions the differenct being 2%
income boost for the civilian vs the military version.
In my N/N prussian camapign i expanded to fast, not really having a choice as i was at war with Barvaria, Denmark Austria, Saxony, Wutemburg, Westphalia, and UC, (they declared on me) they were sending single and double unit stacks and hammering my cities so i started wiping them out. The explosive (thats the right word) expansion tanked my economy so that i went from making about 5000 a turn to loosing 900 a turn. Fortunatly i kind of figured this was comming and had managed to save about 5500 gold so i had some cash on hand to float me untill the changes took effect. I went to my ministers screen and saw that my head, treasury, and army ministers were 3 stars and promptly changed them out for a 5 star and Two 4 stars so that i started making 100 a turn. I finally took the Netherlands and the revolts were problemmatic for about 10 turns, plus the Danish had the trade port in the Netherlands blockaded so sending my small fleet out to chase the Danes off or kill them (they fled) created an increase of another 600 per turn. All in all the economics are more difficult now, and i truly love it. The game is not what was released anymore, and IMHO is a better change as the game is a challange now even on the lower difficulty levels. It will take some adjustment by the players, but we are a resilient group, thirsting for a challange, and in most cases willing to assist with whatever tips, tricks and tactics we come across. Just yesterday in the year 1820, my taxes are set at the lowest levels across the globe, I own the pirate islands, Dutch and French Guiana (reverted to rebels when i crushed the UP), i own Mexico, Columbia (declared independance from Spain), Texas, Louisianna, Florida, Georgia, Carolina, (took from the British) Ceylon (also rebels when i crushed UP), and Morrocco. I have Italy, Hannover, Genoa, Venice, and the United states as protectorates. I am trading with every major faction still left in the game except for GB which i am at war with. I have an alliance with France and Sweeden (that one was tough). I have 10 full 14 boat fleets consisting of, 2 heavy first rates, 2 first rates, 2 second rates, 2 third, and a mixture of 4th,5th and 6th rates topping them off. I run 4 full elite stack armies in Europe, and 2 in America prosecuting my war with the British at the behest of my American protectorate. I have taken Denmark and given it to Hannover, taken Naples from GB and given it to Italian States, Morroco went to Genoa, and Sardinia also from GB went to Venice. I intend to give more American provinces to the protectorates as i build up the infrastructure first, than Xfer ownership. I currently have 160,000 gold in my treasury and am making over 15000 a turn. My tech is done and i have no colleges left (tore them down as the tech tree was finishing). I will say that getting to the point in the game where i literally am the master of the world even if it is ruled by other governments was no small feat, and i suffered serious setbacks from time to time. I am thinking that since i consider the game mostly done i just may go insane and attack EVERYBODY (except my protectorates) at the same time just to see if i can pull it off. It is possible but how you used to play and how you need to play is completely different now, adapt, improvise and overcome, (yes i borrowed the line from a movie) if all else fails ask here there are plenty of folks here who just love to show everyone how smart they are :). Seriozha
Last Edited By: Seriozha 05/13/09 00:11:31.
Edited 2 times.
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normandymaster |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 1682 05/13/09 00:13:47 |
I must say that I don't think pacth 1.2 is a big success but the time required to control a territory is more realistic now. It makes sense that
controlling new territories only cost and do not profit at the beginning it would have been the case back then and would now.
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ace blazer |
#10 | |||
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I think that the main tactic in European war should be to take their cities, then give it back to them while demanding huge reparations, forced trade
agreements etc. This would work with the current build since taking a city and holding it is realistically depicted as a huge money drainer: you can't just
impose your will and government on the people and expect them to accept it. Diplomatic AI would need to be given a complete overhaul for this to work thoough.
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RotorFlyer |
#11 | |||
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I am seeing this also, it is a whole lot harder to manage the money and what is done with it.
One thing I can see though is that there needs to be an increase in time of the game . As it is now watching how the economy is I do not think one can take all that is required to win! It is taking over twice as long to build army's and Navies. Anyone one else have an idea about the time limit? |
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kowgli |
#12 | |||
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I think the main economic "bug" is that there is no internal trade. For example I make 160k a turn trading with India. There are basically two
empires left. Them and me owning the rest of the world.
The problem is that if I would capture all provinces in India I woul make much less money than from trading with them what doesn't make sence. It's like when you capture a province it suddenly looses interest in trade goods. This is not realistic. They should still import the same goods they did before, what difference does it make who is the owner of the province. The people should still import spices, tabaco, etc. And I should make profit from taxing that trade, basically the same as before. |
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mr orbit |
#13 | |||
Seriozha wrote:hehe, you forgot the Evil Overlord laughter
but well done. Personally I still struggle with economies but there are some helpful hints here. Thx |
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Antenociti |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 101 05/13/09 01:20:41 |
You dont have enough troops to keep the French capital under control.
This means that you automatically use "town watch" troops to help keep the population under control. Town Watch are very expensive. Look on your finances page and it will tell you how much you are spending on town watch - that is where your money is going. |
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impar |
#15 | |||
twisted wrote:Taxes level are the same? What I do when conquering a new capital is, for the first turn, increase the taxes to the max, since they are going to rebel I might as well get some extra cash from it. You need to see if the max tax option is indeed the most profitable one, sometimes the second tax option is more profitable. I repair every order keeping building and move/recruit as many dragoons as I can into the city. Universities can be demolished depending on the research situation. Next turn, lower the tax to keep all other provinces under control and, if exempting the city from taxes still causes unrest, keep taxing the city (will have a building damaged next turn anyway), if exempting the city makes the city peacefull, I exempt. So, play with taxes, repair order keeping buildings, demolish unnecessary unrest causing buildings, rely on Dragoons till the city is under control. |
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feelfreetodie |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 163 05/13/09 05:01:10 |
Attacking France, make sure you have money to repair buildings before you attack, when conquered destroy all churches if not same religion and destroy the
school,college or university, exempt taxes, repair your army right away. Now like i said you must have 3000-6000 in cash before you attack, if you do have the
money you could bring France under control in 2 turns, 3 max and then turn taxes back on and enjoy the extra 4k plus in taxes. This is what I do @ VH, should
be easier at lower difficulty.
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impar |
#17 | |||
feelfreetodie wrote:Thats a mistake in the early years of occupation. Churches provide happiness to people. Demolishing them will increase the unrest, not decrease it. |
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feelfreetodie |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 163 05/13/09 05:31:04 |
next turn you build your own church, after 2 turns your army will be fully replenished and that should be enough to keep order for now, but with new churches
built after 3rd turn you will quickly convert enough to start to take out your army and continue the campaign, the most important thing though is to have a
7star minister or higher for Justice. I always keep my best ministers for Justice then treasury then army.
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impar |
#19 | |||
feelfreetodie wrote:The conversion rate is too slow. |
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feelfreetodie |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 163 05/13/09 07:34:18 |
I always try to keep a priest or two close to the front when attacking a nation of different religion, this will dramatically increase conversion. Plus 1 or 2
dragoons and your army should be able to leave the conquered nation after 3 yrs. Church starts by adding -1 to lower class and then -2 with upgrade, which can
be both built within the 6 turns, coupled with an inn, should be good to go after 6 turns.
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